The High Cost of Union Time Off
Posted by: jimfior02 on: July 29, 2008
Our contracts with our unions provide that if an employee needs time off for union business, then they can do that on city time and we will pay them for the time. If we have to fill the spot with another employee, we pay that other employee time and half. All of this is standard in employer/employee relationships.
In the first six months of 2007, the highway had no time for union time, the clty clerk’s office, zero, the police department had $1,272 in time, to attend some conferences or meetings. The teacher’s union, which does not get overtime, did not use any on the job time for negotiating.
The Fire Department, in that same period, cost us $8,500 in union time.
That was 2007. In the first six months of 2008, the highway department and clerk’s office again had zero, the police department had $1,272, and this time, the fire department union time cost us $26,500. Previous fire department unions in the city have averaged around $4,000 to $5,000 a year in union time.
Use of union time in the fire department more than tripled from one year to the next and is 20 times more than in the police department. (Both groups, by the way, are in the process of contract negotiations.)
We have instituted a new policy in the fire department– a very simple one. If you are out on union time, you tell us why you are out and fill out a form justifying the reason.
That new policy has spawned a number of complaints and grievances from the union.
We are not going to tolerate anyone abusing the system.
That’s my view. What’s yours?
Jim Fiorentini
21 Responses to "The High Cost of Union Time Off"
July 30, 2008 at 1:06 am
This has nothing do with State aid, but it certainly has to do with good management.
I am very interested in knowing how your union justifies using over 3 times more union time than was used a year ago, and 20 times the amount the police union used?
July 30, 2008 at 7:23 pm
And I am very interested in know why you painted myself and 36 other haverhill firefighters as sick leave abusers that used an average of 10.86 days per year, when 37 of us did not use a single day. I myself haven’t used a sick day in 4 years, and you also left out the fact that we had the highest amount of employees that didn’t use one sick day all year, but that was left out of the article. I bet it was a typo.
July 30, 2008 at 8:02 pm
I agree with you, you should not be lumped in as a person abusing sick leave.
There are many people like you. We, and I, need to do a better job of commedning the many employees who have done an excellent job on attendence. The record is actually better than you say it is: last year 44 firefighters had perfect attendence.
Here is what I said in my original post, still on this blog:
“In the fire department, the overwhelming number of employees do not abuse sick leave. 38 firefighters had perfect attendance in 2007 and 44 had perfect attendance in 2008.”
This was probably the highest by number (not by percentage) of our departments, and I commend them for their good work.
I know that reviewing sick leave is controversial. Printing the numbers in the newspapers is controversial. However, the newspapers have right to this information, that is their job.
I respect what you do, you have a job to do and the fire department does it well.
I have a job to do too– and reviewing and managing the system is part of my job.
Now, let’s work together to reduce the amount of sick time used. Any misuse or abuse of sick leave or union time is less money for everyone
July 31, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Well, Mr. Mayor seeing as you cut the fire department 3 positions in this years budget, and have yet to fill 8 others leaving the department recently due to retirement for 11 members short. Plus, a recent retiree and another member that just put in his papers due to cancer. For a grand total of 13 men we are down!!!!!!! Of course the union time off is going to cost the city (FIRE DEPT. BUDGET) more money. You see before men could roller-skate from one station to another at no cost to the city! Now to fill a position created by union time off must be filled with OT. But since YOU! said YOU would rather spend money in Overtime then hiring the men we need, every time a man is out cost money.
By they way do you ever feel like a dog chasing its tail? Why you ask?
Because you see the sick time is up because men are working to many hours filling the spots that YOU will not fill! We are down a RECORD high of(13) in total. So, when it comes back to ones’ normal shift they are run down and sick due to all the extra time needed to work covering vacancies. YOU’RE the one who said you would rather pay overtime then fill vacancies NOT US!Then you bash us as abusers….. Ever think that if you filled these spots guys wouldn’t be working so much and wouldn’t have to call in sick on their own shift. You even said we have the best plan to save sick time so why would we want to be using it?
But, hey as long as the citizens “PERCEIVE” they are safe its good by you. Right? Mr. Mayor or are you going to deny saying that??
July 31, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Well Mr. Mayor, I’m sure that with what’s been going on in the DPW lately, there’s not much effort being done by their union, and I don’t want to talk on behalf of them. The Police union has recieved a recent contract with the city and has a chief that is willing to do what he thinks is right for his department, which is probably keeping the need for grievances down. The Fire Department on the other hand, has always been very active and has not had a new agreement with the city in over 6 years. The last raise we recieved, if you want to call it that, was awarded, through arbitration, over 2 years ago. There have also been a number of grievances due to managements desire to forcefully change the existing contract, rules and regulations. Perhaps this is one small reason why so much union time off is needed. You have mentioned in the newspapers about how outrageous our contract is. What is a contract Mr. Mayor? It is an AGREEMENT between the union and the city. Something both sides AGEED on. Nothing we demanded.
About 6 years ago you and the rest of the city counsel compained that a person cannot reside in this city and earn only 60k/yr. Look at what the cost of living has gone up since then Mr. Mayor, and look at what a Fire Fighters salary was then and what it is now. You say you have the utmost respect for us, yet you show the most disrespect by throwing a proposal in our face, unwilling to bargain whatsoever.
August 1, 2008 at 12:17 am
Thank you. I provide this forum to give people a chance to log in and speak with me directly and to hear your point of view. We will not always agree, but I appreciate the agreeable tone of our email.
Our next bargaining session with your union is set August 21.
The police do not have a contract either and we are meeting with them also. We are also meeting with the highway department.
As for your previous pay raise, it was awarded by a neutral arbitrator. It was more than I felt we could afford, and less than what your union wanted.
As for union time, the few people that are abusing it are making the vast majority of a fine department look bad. You should be as concerned about it as I am. There is no excuse for $27,000 in union time in a six month period. The amounts spent in prior years do not come anywhere close to this.
You do make some very good points however, you make them very well, and I will take them into consideration. I have to balance what I would like to do with what we can afford. We all wish that our finances, and the State’s finances, were better.
Jim Fiorentini
August 1, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Why is it you defended the teachers on their sick time usage and you chastise the “city side” of government. This has nothing to do with your Sister and Son being on the “school side” of city government does it?
How much time has the school union used the same period you report on the fire departmment? Care to share that information? I as a constituent has a right to know where all the money is being spent.
August 1, 2008 at 4:05 pm
That’s right they’re salary employees who don’t get overtime. We couldn’t afford their salaries if they were paid hourly, could we. But how much time away from the students are they when they do take time to do their union functions? Does Dr. B keep those records and share them with you?
August 1, 2008 at 10:50 pm
The citizens of Haverhill are sick and tired of ‘city employees’ and their unions thinking they can run the city! Those of us who are taxpayers pay your salaries and have an expectation of accountability just as there is accountability at my job in the private sector. So why doesn’t everyone simply go to work………do the best job you can possibly do(for the very decent salaries you earn)and stop always looking for something for nothing. Does anyone even take the time to be thankful they have a job??????????????
August 1, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Additional note: We also all have rules to follow ao if you’re supposed to live in the city………..then live in the city and if there’s paperwork to fill out…………fill it out!
August 2, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Well Reenie, We do go to work, at least 48 hours a week sometimes 2X that amount in a week because we are so short handed. And yes we are thankful to have a job. But if the typical person was interviewing for a job, and was told they would not even get a cost of living allowance, they would most likely look elsewhere. The Fire Fighters are not looking for huge raises, simply a little bit to somewhat offset the high cost of living ( which is about 8.5% right now). Our children have just the same right to do and have the same things they have had, just as yours. That’s all we’re asking. Fairness. We have sick leave and union business leave given to us areeably by the City. And now they don’t want us to use it. Take it away, but give us something else. That’s bargaining.
I’m very sure if someone was taking an interview and was told they would be recieving less and less as they gained more experience, they would definately turn down any job.
And by the way, We are the City. If there were no more city employees, what would your tax money be going to? It’s going to less and less by the day, and it’s not because of any demands we are making.
How much interaction do you have with city officials? especially the Mayor? It seems the people with the most complaints about the Mayor are the people who deal with him the most and know the truth of what’s going on, the city employees.
Go to sleep feeling safe tonight, Knowing the people earning less and less each year, will always do their best to protect you with less and less.
August 6, 2008 at 1:24 am
I believe everyone should have a legal and binding contract and everyone should receive a reasonable yearly cost of living increase~
I firmly believe that Unions, having gone the way of big business, with their austentacious buildings and huge salaries………have succeeded in driving a huge wedges in what could be reasonable negotiotions between employer and employee. Somewhere along the line, the ‘intended purpose’ of the Unions has lost it’s way BIGTIME~
August 7, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Have you seen our fire houses? They’re in shambles. Yes they are big, you need somewhere to keep those fire apparatus. Come down and visit, our doors are always open.
As far as huge salaries, If you remember a few years back the city cousil said a person cannot afford to live in this city on a salary of 60K. But yet we do it. Any huge salaries you might see include overtime. Again, someone has to do the job. If there are not enough bodies to go around, the same bodies do the job, over time. Don’t look at that word and think money, but rather time.
And again, don’t believe everything you hear, we are not,by any means, looking for huge raises. That comment is false, misleading, and disrespectful to people who are bringing home about $15 a week more than what they were 8 years ago. I wish my taxes, water, electric, heating and eating bills only went up that muck also.
I think it’s a shame, a fire fighter can’t live comfortably in the town in which he serves, on his base salary including benefits. Then he works twice as much, because the city refuses to fill positions, and is ridiculed for making more money. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. By the way, I am also a taxpayer in this town.
Do your homework. see what kind of pay increases we have had the past 8 years. I’m sure you’ll feel differently about what we’ve been putting up with.
August 11, 2008 at 12:31 am
PLEASE re-read my previous message and allow me to clarify………my comment was in NO way referring to the Firefighter’s salaries or your firehouse………it was regarding the Unions having gone BIG business NOT the firefighters. And my point was simply that it might be wise to rethink the Union………you might do far better with your negotiations dealing directly with your employer. Take a minute one day and see what the Union guys earn a year.
Please know every citizen in this city should feel that ‘all’ city employees deserve to earn a living wage and should have decent benefits, as well.
If positions are not filled thereby requiring the use of overtime by any city employee, then there should be no comment made about that either. The question would then be……….why are positions not being filled and why are city employees expected to go to work each day with no current contract in place? I would pose that question to the Mayor. Surely when a group of adults communes…….an agreement can be reached.
I believe it is time for every citizen to start paying attention to what’s going on in this city and listening to the valid grievances of our employees and on the other hand perhaps every city employee might also keep in mind that those of us who do work and pay our taxes-(including all of you)-would just like to feel that the negotiations that take place are fair and, of course, beneficial to all. That way……everyone wins!
And in closing……….please know how much gratitude there is in my heart for the life threatening work you guys do on a daily basis~
August 15, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Anyone who says they can’t live in this city on $60,000 a year is stupid. You think $60,000 a year is peanuts? This is a very affordable city. Look at your daily expenses. What kind of car do you drive? How much electricity are you wasting? How much are you spending on groceries that could be cheaper at another store? What kind of house do you live in? Anyone who can’t live in Haverhill for $60,000 a year is living beyond their means. Most people in this country drive an SUV, live in a big house that is twice as big as they need, waste elctricty, and then complain about the “high cost of living”. You need to make sacrifices, like everyone else. When times are tough the first thing you do is reduce expenses, not increase income.
August 19, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Hey nice to see you back on here shot down sun. Did you find a new band to play with since being replace for your old band. I saw them with you and without you in the band and i think they are much better without you. Good luck and again welcome back.
August 20, 2008 at 12:35 pm
The city council said you couldn’t live in this city on 60k, about 6 years ago. And I think times have changed a little since then, Jacko. I know there’s alot of people making less than that if anything at all, just walk down How St. Tell me you haven’t received a raise in 5 years. I’ve always lived well within my means, but can still feel the pinch because of no cost of living increase. Ask your parents if they could afford to live now on what they made 50 years ago. It’s a simple fact of life. Some people get it, some don’t, kind a like playing music I hear.
August 20, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Reenie, all our fire fighters are union. We belong to a local with our own E-board and bargaining committee. They get paid nothing. There is a very small stipend for a couple of members who do a special job. But I assure you it doesn’t cover any real costs.
August 27, 2008 at 1:46 am
Mayor why don’t you just follow the rules that you agreed to and signed??? Negotiate in good faith and resolve the problem the right way. Please please reply and tell me why you have decided to not follow the contract?
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- followtherules: Mayor why don't you just follow the rules that you agreed to and signed??? Negotiate in good faith and resolve the problem the right way. Please pleas
- chippy2: While I sympathize with city employees with the rise in expenses, the same problem exsists throughout the community. As a retiree, living solely on S
- bobmc: Reenie, all our fire fighters are union. We belong to a local with our own E-board and bargaining committee. They get paid nothing. There is a very sm
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July 30, 2008 at 12:59 am
Interesting that the mayor has such a grudge with the fire department. The city of haverhill is in debt because of the firefighters, please don’t blame your mismanagement skills on the city employees, it is really getting old. I wonder if the city got its extra 1.4 million would this even be an issue, but now its the sick time, overtime, and union for a department that has been cut to the bone by your doing because you would rather pay the overtime than pay for benefits. Don’t use your city employees as pawn for state aid. I wish I could budget my household on money i don’t have.